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I wouldn’t normally post about LCD HDTVs having dead pixels, it happens. The issue here is that Chris Hunkele sent in news that the Samsung LNT5271F he bought from Amazon is having problems… again.
A few months ago Chris bought the Samsung LNT5271F from Amazon (still one of the highest rated HDTVs on there) when it was on a smoking sale (given that it was about $500 more everywhere else). The TV arrived promptly, got unboxed, looked beautiful and he sat down to praise it. Immediately he noticed that there were two rows (not a few pixels but 3-4″ rows) of dead pixels on the set.
Chris contacted Amazon and they cross-shipped him a replacement TV, no questions asked.
You can see in the image on the left (click for a huge version) the rows of dead pixels… they popped up about 3-4 months after the replacement showed up and it was out of the clear blue. No trauma to the TV, no long gaming sessions… just flipped the TV on to watch some news and bam, there they were.
Chris is now in the position of dealing with Samsung customer support, which is one of the things I’m most interested in when it comes to consumer electronic companies… in my opinion that is the differentiating factor (Microsoft and Sony should listen).
We’ll keep covering this story and see what happens… there are rumors on AVS Forum that Samsung has been replacing the LNT5271F’s with LN52A650’s (another super-highly rated HDTV that got the “thumbs up” of approval from PC Mag’s Robert Heron - the guru of HDTVs IMO)
Overall I’m pretty impressed with how highly rated these Samsungs are across the board and think maybe the LNT5271F dead-pixel phenomenon may have been a manufacturing snaffu if they are replacing them with A650s when there are still other 71Fs in stock.
Update #1: Chris provided a follow-up on the Samsung LNT-5271F LCD panel replacement and says the picture is back to normal. Fingers crossed!
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May 30th, 2008 at 5:54 am
This is delamination of the LCD panel, which is all too common on the Samsung 71 series. My 5271 had the same problem. It takes a while, but you can get Samsung to replace the set or give a full refund. I just got a refund check for my delaminated 5271 a couple of days ago. The process took about 4 months from start to finish.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:03 am
TiVo, would you mind posting a bit more detail about the process you went through? Was Samsung forth-coming with repair offers or replacement offers and you kept pushing for the replacement check *or* were they unwilling to do anything and you wanted out of the relationship with them completely and demanded the replacement check instead?
After talking with some other HDTV reviewers, they are saying that the ‘07 Samsung panels in general were having some problems and they *Seem* to be better in ‘08 but who knows… it’s really interesting that you found this common across the 71 series because that is exactly what some of these reviewers were saying.
Any idea what causes the delamination and is it a complete failure, or a salvagible panel? Will it just keep occurring in more places on the screen, or is it always in the same general area for folks?
May 30th, 2008 at 8:01 am
I’m not sure what causes the delamination, but it’s definitely a manufacturing defect that seems fairly common with the 71 series. According to my local service tech, there is no way to repair the panel, so the entire LCD panel needs to be swapped out.
In my particular case, I started by opening a trouble ticket with Samsung. They sent a local service tech who looked at the TV and said that it was a result of physical damage so it would not be covered under warranty. Are you kidding me? He wanted to take the TV back to the shop to verify. I refused to let him take the TV.
Then I called Samsung again and requested a different local service center. The new service tech took one look at the TV and said, “Yup that’s the panel delamination that I’ve read about in the Samsung service bulletins.” He took some pictures of the lines and sent them into Samsung for authorization to order a new LCD panel. Samsung authorized the panel replacement the next day, but the 52-inch panel was on backorder. Samsung then said that they would replace the TV with a new 5271. I told them that I didn’t have confidence that the problem wouldn’t happen again, so I’d prefer to just get a refund. They didn’t have a problem with that. The refund seemed to be a perfectly viable option, and I really didn’t have to try to convince them of anything.
All of this transpired in early February. I was told that the refund process would take 4 to 6 weeks. I called after 4 weeks, but there was no new information. I called after 6 weeks, but still no news. I continued calling every week, but they really couldn’t tell me anything other than the case has been submitted to the refund department, and they’re very sorry for the delay.
Out of the blue, I got a call last week from a trucking company wanting to schedule a time to pickup the TV (which they did). They picked it up Wednesday of last week, and Samsung sent the check out that Friday via DHL overnight. The refund covered the full purchase price including tax.
So the process took quite a while, but it did work out in the end. I ended up replacing the 5271 with a Pioneer Kuro 5010.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:05 am
TiVo awesome followup, I appreciate you taking the time to post that.
Been talking with a friend that does HDTV reviews for a magazine and he was echoing some of the exact same things you said and he’s not entirely sure that the ’08s fix it yet… it’s also hard to tell without having the TV sitting in your house for a while as my buddy had the dead pixels show up the 2nd time after 3.5 months (just out of the freaking blue).
He’s already talked to Samsung and they won’t do the A650 replacement for him and want to do a warranty call, it sounds like the tech is going to determine the exact same thing yours did and I’ll just let him know to request a refund instead to get out of the Samsung family all together.
Also, as far as what you replaced it with… *niiiiice*, how is the Kuro treating you? That TV has quite the picture I’ve heard.
QQ: Did you consider any of the Sharp Aquos before deciding on the Pioneer? I know there have been reports of uniformity issues in the Sharps, but overall quality besides that sounds like it’s been spot on. But, if you have the money, I don’t know that you are gonna do better than the Pioneers.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:55 am
The Kuro is treating me quite well
I don’t have a bias toward LCD or Plasma. I know that both have their advantages and weaknesses. However, after using the Sammy and the Pioneer quite extensively, I can honestly say that the Kuro is the superior TV. The Sammy had a great bright picture, but it just didn’t handle motion as well as the Kuro. The Sammy also suffered from de-interlacing artifacts that I just couldn’t get rid of. I’m completely satisfied with my replacement decision.
I did not consider any Sharp models before deciding on the Pioneer. I really didn’t consider ANY other models. If the Kuro hadn’t worked out, I would have gone back and considered some other brands (both LCD and Plasma). But I think I made the right call.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:31 am
TiVoHD, I’m really glad to hear that. I know Robert Heron (@PC Mag) was raving about the contrast the Kuro was able to do as well as the smooth motion.
Word on the street is that for the Sharp series the new A650 (A series) TVs are replacing the 71f series… we are hoping that means re-engineered panel that isn’t going to die.
I talked with Chris (the one that got the dead pixels for the story) and he had his panel replaced by a tech, actually came out and replaced the thing.
So we’ll get a followup soon with that information for everyone too for folks that that either have a 71f or are still thinking about getting one.
June 16th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
I have a 5271F that I purchased in November of ‘07. It worked great until about mid-May when small white vertical lines showed up out of the blue in the center of the screen. They started getting larger until eventually the lines covered the entire screen. I could turn off the set and the picture would be fine but after a random amount of time the screen would be covered again.
I had a tech come out and he changed some parts which worked for about ten days when the lines again popped up unexpectedly.
I placed another service call and he changed another part out but this produced a constant 6 inch vertical black block from top to bottom that was just off center to the left. This would always display while powered on, returning after turning off the set then back on again. This also after trying to swap in the orginal part.
Today the tech came out and replaced the panel and the picture was great again(briefly). I was watching some espn HD and after about 30 minutes the whites flashed and eventually stayed.
This is all still under warranty since the tv was made in October ‘07. I used to love firing it up to watch blurays, play PS3 and Xbox360 games but now I just wonder when those whites lines will pop up next. Waiting to hear back from Samsung on what’s the next step. The picture quality is great at 1080p when it’s working but the hassle is starting to grate on me.
June 17th, 2008 at 8:44 am
DC,
About how long ago was the panel swap done? According to Chris Hunkele, the new panels are done in-house by Samsung that are being used to replace the busted ones… but it sounds like your replacement panel is still having problems?
I know the feeling of not knowing what you are going to get each time you turn your TV on, it fucking sucks… especially with the central source of entertainment in your house, especially when people are over. I really feel for you man.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:35 am
The panel swap was done yesterday morning (June 16th). I actually started to feel that this would do the trick. So as soon as the lines appeared, I just stared in disbelief at the screen.
Yeah the uncertainty sucks, you can’t sit there and enjoy anything because you’re thinking “How long?”.
Hopefully that your friend has better luck with his panel. It’s a big set and to not have it working properly is frustrating.
June 17th, 2008 at 10:07 am
DC,
If you can, please keep us posted with what you decide to do moving forward (more repairs, replacement set… maybe Samsung will send you the A650?)
It might be worth calling them to see… folks on AVS said they got the A650s as a replacement for some faulty 71f sets and I’m wondering if Samsung is doing that on purpose because they know what’s wrong.
June 17th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Riyad,
I’ll let you know how it goes. I saw too that some people on AVS were getting A650s as replacements. I’ll bring it up with Samsung. I have no confidence in my current set now, with all the times it has been opened up and parts going in/out of it.
I still cannot believe that not even a year has gone by and this set has had problems.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Update to my white lines issue. The authorized service center sent the tech back out again last Thursday (June 19) to switch out a part called FRC. This was three days after replacing the panel. It looks like this was the cause of the problem. It has been running great like before the lines issue began.
It looks like it was a bad part because I had ocasionally tiny horizontal orange lines display when watching light colored backgrounds like say a sunset in a movie or sometimes an animated movie. I popped in the bluray Simpsons movie and watched it again without any kind of lines since I remember them when watching it last. I always thought this was some type of limitation with LCDs. They would pop up for a few seconds so I didn’t mind. So now the picture is better than it has been. I did start seeing more orange lines when the tv started acting up and displaying the white lines more frequently.
As long as this keeps up, I’m a happy camper. Good luck to others that have issues with their 71F’s. It’s a great set when it’s working but I’m right there with you when something goes wrong because it can be so frustrating.
June 23rd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
DC,
Dude you made my day reading that… as someone who has been through (here and here) nothing is worse when it craps out on you and nothing is better when it offers you an eye-searingly-good-picture or when your friends come over and say “oh man that looks awesome!”
I’m glad to hear that they narrowed down the fix to a specific faulty device and have passed the info along to Chris in case he runs into this… AFAIK he got the display replaced and all is well for him, BUT if white/orange lines popup, we now know exactly where to go looking.
You rock dude, thanks for taking the time to share your process here for everyone. I think a lot of readers and finding this post and getting some sort of relief knowing that others are having the same problem *and* finding some guidance on how to get it fixed.
June 26th, 2008 at 2:08 am
Usually i like Samsung’s always classic design,
which don’t come out with so flashy frame.
Then pixelation usually occurs wathcing standard channel anyway,
but dead pixel is something unacceptable.
Anw, this series are good on generating light,
display comes out vivid and heal your eyes.
Deep black is provided which will make things easier for you
especially for those dark scenes in movies or games.
June 26th, 2008 at 7:51 am
You are absolutely right Benzodiazepine, the 65f and 71f series made Samsung a reputation of having plasma-like looking LCD panels, but the build quality issue wasn’t something I was ever aware of until recently.
I know a few folks are saying that the A650s hopefully refine those build issues, but at this point who knows. I’d have to wait and see what happened with anyone who has the set for 6 months or so.
That *and* Panasonic’s latest plasma offerings are looking phenomenal… so lots of competition out there.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:35 am
I purchased a new samsung series 6 52″ today, about 15 minutes after setting it up a row of dead pixels that run straight from the top to bottom appeared directly in the centre of the unit. I contacted the store i purchased it from and they will be getting a replacement unit from samsung (i bought the last one in stock) and sending it out to me. Should have it by the end of the week.
Its a little dissapointing though as i put a huge amount of research into the new TV purchase and come to the conclusion this unit was the best bang for buck, my wife still hasnt stopped throwing egg in my face
July 6th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Daz that *sucks* man, I’m really sorry to hear that happened. A few tips for you:
1. This set is known for the dead pixels, you might consider returning the set and getting a full refund before your 30 days is up and you have to keep it.
2. Even the replacement set will likely develop dead pixels again (check out the original story for this post), it didn’t happen to my friend with his replacement until the 3-4 month mark… and then you are dealing with Samsung and replacement panels and all that other monkey business.
If you do decide to return the site, I might point you towards the new Panasonic plasma panels *or* you can take a risk with the Samsung A650 panels which are supposedly quite nice… they haven’t been out long enough to see if they suffer from the same dead-pixel issue though.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Just thought I would add to the 71 series problems. Bought a new 52F71 the end of January 2008 after a month of research. It came down to Sony, Samsung, or Sharp and Samusng won out on the picture. Since I purchased it I had the motion issue that everyone has and it still is not fixed. Samsung sent the firmware and that did nothing for it. The came the wavy lines in the bottom 3 or 4 inches of the screen randomly whether you had motion on or not. Samsung does nothing for this either. Then boom, turn the TV on and a 3 inch line of dead pixels from the bottom of the screen just left of center. CAll Samsung on June 16th and describe the issue. They open a trouble ticket and tell me that I am in a no service area and they will assign a service center within 48 hours. They give me the ticket number and sure enough 2 days later I see on the website that they have assigned a service shop. After 4 more days still have not heard from the repair shop so I call them. They tell me that that they notified Samsung that it was too far away and they would not take the call. I call Samsung and they give me, Oh we do not see that on the ticket. They check with the shop and find out it is true that they are not going to take the call. They tall me they are going to reassign the call to the out of service area group and I should hear something in 48 hours. I call back when I hear nothing and they tell me that my ticket has been sent to ECS(Executive Customer Service) and they are gone for the day and I will have to call back. I call back the next day and get told that Becky is working the issue and she will call me back no later then Friday to let me know the resolution. Guess what, Never hear from her. I call back again and get told that now it is not 48 hours to assign a service center but 48 business hours or 6 days….Now I find that they have assigned my repair to a shop in Suitland Maryland that there are 10 reviews all 1’s, basically to never take anything to them….Samsung is giving no choice in the matter but I will not let this company take my TV out of the house I can guarantee you that. So far I would definitely say BUYER BEWARE when purchasing from SAMSUNG. WIll update as the saga continues.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Oh, and by the way, the lines are now 3/8 on an inch wide and run from top to bottom of the screen. Sort of like a complete split screen tv except it is only one picture…..Just keep spreading now…
July 6th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Bill,
Do you have a digital camera that you could snag some shots with? If so, and you want to email them to us we can host them for you and add them to the story as resources that other readers might find handy for comparison sake.
The really disturbing issues that I see developing here isn’t just a fundamental design problem, but the customer service failure of Samsung’s… this trend is exactly how the “Sony green blob” saga started, developed and ended with regards to the XBR sets and the eventual class-action lawsuit.
Bill please keep us posted, we have been getting quite a few hits on this story and I think you guys are in a growing group of folks that are starting to run into these problems and they will want to go someplace to discuss it/strategies/Samsung/etc.
Thanks again.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:57 am
And the saga continues…..Amazingly, I went back to Samsungs website and put in several neighboring zip codes to mine in there service center section. Up pops up a local shop which is 30 minutes from my house not an hour and a half. I check this company out for reviews and they seem reputable. I then call the first company that they have assigned me and the nasty person on the phone tells me that they will call me when they are ready to work on my tv and I do not need to call them as they are busy. I call the company that is much closer to me and the girl tells me that they do in home service in my area and that they do handle Samsung warranty work. She tells me to call Samsung and give them the info and they can arrange a appointment this week….Great, things are finally moving forward until I call Samsung. I get first level who tells me that they cannot change anything with that and they transfer me to the service scheduling. I get this person on the phone and they tell me that they have no record of the company that I am talking about being in my area and that she will have to sent the request to the out of service area team and they will get back to me in roughly 48 hours to let me know. I have to tell the girl to please go back to the ticket and put in the neighboring zip code and she will see it. She then does this and says, “Oh they show up as much closer that the other one. She transfers my service call eventually to this new company who has already called me back.
The amazing thing is that in todays computer world they cannot search areas only by specific zip codes. My TV has been broken for some 3 going on 4 weeks and I, the customer who paid them thousands of dollars, has had to make all of the calls to get my TV looked at…
I will forward the pics as soon as I get them…Thanks for letting me vent….
July 7th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Hah, good for you for hanging in there Bill. I’m really glad to hear that you found a closer place with nicer people to take care of you.
Fingers crossed for you!
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:40 am
I have a LNT5271F that I purchased at Circuit City with a Mfg date of Dec 2007 and it works great to this day. I have the auto motion problem but if you set it on low there are no problems. Everyone that sees this TV can’t believe how real it is.
July 22nd, 2008 at 10:46 am
Lon,
Glad to hear the set is still looking smokin-hot. It is definitely a pretty panel when it’s working.
Let us know if you run into any issues though and we’ll try and help out. As noted it did take Chris a few months to burn through his replacement set… but having lightning strike twice worries me.
August 2nd, 2008 at 4:24 am
I too am having an issue now with this TV. I purchased it in November of 2007 and I only recently began to get the lines on the screen. I have two lines that are growing in length in the middle of the screen and they are connected by a squiggly line. I called Samsung and they are sending someone to fix the problem. Now that I have read that other people are dealing with the same issue, I am going to demand more information about what they plan to do about the problem. The other annoying issue I have is that their TV services they are affiliated with will not remove my TV from the wall. This becomes a pain in the ass for me because if this is going to be an ongoing issue my TV will be sitting on the floor for quite some time. I wish I could ask for a refund even before the tech guys come out.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
Kurt,
Did you get a warranty through the store you bought the TV? If you did, you can try dealing with *them* first and seeing if they will swap it out with a different set first before falling back to Samsung.
Although it’s usually the case that your store will tell you to deal with the vendor, and your vendor will tell you to deal with your store… so it just depends who is nicer when you call them.
August 2nd, 2008 at 9:46 am
Unfortunately, I purchased the TV through Amazon. After reading this blog I called the TV tech company and they agreed to changed out the panel to the new and improved 2008 version that is not being used in the A650. If this panel fails, Samsung agreed to replaced the entire product or offer a full refund. I am debating as to purchase an extended warranty because my warranty is up in November. What do you think?
August 2nd, 2008 at 10:32 am
Kurt,
I’m glad to hear that the tech co and Samsung are being fair with you.
Does the replacement panel come with any significant warranty on it’s own? (like 9 months) so that you don’t have to purchase your own?
If it doesn’t, see if the new warranty will cover the replaced panel incase it goes south again and how much is it? If it’s $100-150 or in that ballpark, I’d say grab it for the piece of mind, but grab it through Samsung as they are the ones that will warranty the replacement or not.
If it’s more than that, find out more about what Samsung promised you (with regards to replacing the TV… does it have to fail again within 60 days or something for them to do that? Or do you just need to have an active warranty with them?)
August 2nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
Well Everyone, Soory for the delay on the updates for my tv but I have spent most of my time on the phone with Samsung and the repair place. From the earlier update on July 7, Samsung did assign my call to a closer service center. They called and wanted a decription of the problem which I provided. They then called me back and asked me to send digital pictures of the issue. I immediately emailed them and then did not hear anything for 2 days. To shorten this up, It is now August 2, 2008 and Samsung called yesterday and said that they are going to try replacing the panel before the replace the TV. They assured me that the new panel that is not being built by a 3rd party will not have the issues and that it is being shipped to the repair shop from California. So far a little over 2 months and I am still watching the line grom in the center of my TV…Guess we will see when the panel is replaced what happens. Samsung assured me that if the issue starts again, they will replace the TV or refund my money…Lets hope this does not have to happen….
August 2nd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Bill,
I really appreciate you circling back with us and letting us know how things went. More folks are running into this and the ones that do it *really* helps them to see the whole processes, who to contact and what the company offers so you guys can all compare notes and walk in well-informed when dealing with the co.
Are the dead pixels in the TV pretty big now? If it was easy to grab, could you send us a picture of it and I’ll add it to this story? (contact@breakitdownblog.com if you can).
If it’s a pain, don’t worry about it, just keep us posted on how nice the new panel looks