Update #1: Chris Hunkele has provided an analysis at the end of the post that seems to suggest the iPhone 2.0 is fundamentally incompatible with the T-Mobile 3G network that is rolling out now, check it out.
Update #2: Chris Hunkele has confirmed that the 3G iPhone will not work on the 3G T-Mobile network, see his comment here. It is our understanding that the 3G iPhone will continue to function as the original EDGE-based iPhone did, you won’t have access to the 3G speeds on T-Mobile.
With the impending release of the 3G iPhone getting ready to drop July 11th, the rumor-mill is spinning (atleast for US citizens) with: “Will this work on T-Mobile’s 3G network?”
Also combined with news, starting back in April, that the T-Mobile 3G rollout was tentatively going to be voice-only (rumors suggest previous owners of the broadcast band weren’t getting off the band fast enough), but then a May update suggesting that T-Mobile was infact doing a soft-launch of the 3G data network silently to customers.
NOTE: The T-Mobile rumor mill has also stated that Phoenix will be one of the first major cities to see the complete 3G rollout happen; so for the Arizona folks reading, congrats and please let us know how it performs!
Of the friends I know on T-Mobile, 80% of them have JailBroken iPhones on the network, so the question is pretty relevant especially given the new restrictions that AT&T looks to be putting on unlockers getting their hands on the 3G iPhone.
Laurence Hartje pointed out the following:
T-Mobile: 1700/2100 MHz
AT&T: 1900 MHz
It look like the MHz range the two 3G networks operate on is different (an opportunity for AT&T to force Apple to lock the device to the AT&T network) which will likely cause very little cross-network population of 3G devices, assuming that supporting different MHz ranges isn’t a software change.
Chris Hunkele did some digging into the hardware behind the different models of the iPhones and came up with:
The iphone 1.0 is a quad band phone (GSM 850, GSM 900, GSM 1800, GSM 1900) and can operate on both ATT’s and T-mobile’s networks
The iPhone 2.0’s has the 3G chip “Infineon-sourced S-GOLD3“.
It’s a tri-band chip operating at 850/1900/2100Mhz.ATT offers UMTS or 3G using 850mhz(the old TDMA band) and 1900mhz.
While T-mobile offers HSDPA (technically 3.5g part of the UMTS specification) using 1700MHz for uplink and 2100MHz downlink.Because HSDPA is part of the UMTS spec, it’s backward compatable.HOWEVER you have the limiting factor begin the frequencies the individual carriers use to transmit the data..
Europe and Asia’s G3 runs on 1900/2100mhz
North and south America is suposed to use the (AWS) 3G spec using 1700/2100mhzATT didn’t want to wait, like T-mobile is doing, for homeland security to vacate those frequencies and launched on 850/1900mhz instead
The iphone2.0 would have to be 850/1700/1900/2100 3G and 850/1900 GSM (voice)….
Since it’s 850/1900/2100Mhz you can get 3G on ATT and in EuropeSo while you can crack iphone 2.0 and use Tmo’s EDGE, you will never get Tmo G3
…bastards
Chris, you are a badass my friend, that was a lot of research there and it looks like there is going to be no love for the iPhone 2.0 crowd on the T-Mobile network, atleast not right now.
We’ll keep you posted on any developments with regards to the 3G iPhone on T-Mobile as we find out more.
Update #3: While not 3G-related, we did put up a guide on how to hack your iPhone (either 1st Gen or 3G iPhone) to enable it to work on T-Mobile’s network and upgrade it to the new Firmware 2.0.1 revision so you can get some of that new App 2.0 sexiness. Check it out.
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11. July 2008 at 11:13 am
Good job Chris ! Hope to hear from u later on the tmobile can finally use the new eg iphone.
17. July 2008 at 8:08 pm
Chris,
What is the latest on the iPhone working the Tmo’s G3? And will other programs like visual voicemail work? Like many I am sure I just want the phone and not ATT.
Davd
18. July 2008 at 7:45 am
This teardown from iFixit reaffirms what we had thought:
Apple used the Inferion BGA736, a 3 Band (800-900)/1900/2100MHz chip.
It is missing the critical 1700MHz band that would allow it to work universally on the U.S. carriers 3G networks. So you will be able to use the 3G portion only on ATT, and in Europe. But that would not stop you from cracking the 3G iPhone and using only EDGE on T-mobile’s network becuase it would still need EDGE radio to fall back onto on ATT’s sparse 3G network.
As for visual voicemail, I doubt seriously that you will see it working because this requires an upgrade on the carriers and of things. And why would T-Mobile spend money to support a feature on a phone they technically don’t support. Now T-mobile in Europe does sell the iPhone, and has visual voicemail but again why spend the money here.
3. August 2008 at 4:24 pm
“While T-mobile offers HSDPA (technically 3.5g part of the UMTS specification) using 1700MHz for uplink and 2100MHz downlink.”
Ok so why not use the EDGE network for the uplink and utilize the 2100MHz for the downlink? It’s obviously the downlink that’s important.
Look at how satellite internet used to work back in the day. For those of you who dont know: You would use dial up networking to connect to your ISP. When you typed in a web address or whatever, it would travel through the dial up modem (all uplinks would do that) and the downlink would come through the satellite at a much faster speed.
See, there’s still hope.
Same principle can be used here: use EDGE for uplink and the 2100Mhz for the downlink.
3. August 2008 at 6:32 pm
Sina,
Possible, but I’d have to say unlikely only because AT&T is done playing 2nd-place to Apple, with 1/4th of the iPhones out there unlocked and *not* under 2-year AT&T contract agreements I have to guess that they will do anything to keep people from getting their hands on working unlocked 3G phones.
It still might happen, but I fully expect AT&T to make it as unpleasant as possible to everyone.
6. August 2008 at 8:06 pm
So what is the difference in a unlocked “American” IPhone 3G and an “European” IPhone 3G if you are using it on the T-mobile network in the U.S? The Italian IPhone supposedly comes unlocked out of the box and has an international Apple warranty. I guess Apple can’t say anything about it being modified for fixing it in America. Any thoughts on which route to go?
7. August 2008 at 6:01 am
Clay,
I don’t think there is much different except the astronomical price for the Euro one.
Aren’t they like $400 Euro (~$800 USD?).
7. August 2008 at 5:22 pm
Sina: you make a good point, maybe some one could do that. HINT HINT
Clay: Hardware wise there is no difference just the price as Riyad mentioned.
7. August 2008 at 9:09 pm
With Apple implanting “Effects” in the updates, it seems they could not crash international phones because of Euros comming to the U.S. to do business. There has to be a difference. Can you imagine being in the U.S. on business and your iphone doesn’t work? Then again, if people would just not buy the iphone it would send Apple a message. They screw there own country that has supported them for 30 years (I have had 17 Macs) and let the rest of the world pick their provider. That is so un-Apple like but very corporate. Maybe they are turning into Microsoft. I will never go ATT at any cost.
7. August 2008 at 9:32 pm
Well hopefully Apple wont renew ATT’s contract AGAIN.. Sometime in 2010 we might have unlocked iPhone :-/
1. September 2008 at 11:30 pm
really quick will the GPS (aGPS) still work over the tmobile edge frequencies or is that also tied into the 3g bands?
2. September 2008 at 7:35 am
I can’t tell you for sure however, the gps chip works independently of the phone or data bands. The aGPS or assisted GPS should still work for the proximity location data still comes from the towers that the 2g iPhones use for google maps.
18. September 2008 at 9:01 am
You Can’t use the 2100 Mhz Downlink because the Tmobile 2100mhz is a different 2100mhz then the rest of the world. So it’s not even compatible, just how cdma isn’t compatiblle with gsm
5. December 2008 at 10:38 am
Thanks so much for the information about 3G between Tmobile and ATT. I’ve been shopping for 3G phones and always worry about compatibility issues. Thanks again Chris and Laurence.
23. December 2008 at 1:09 pm
So if I unlock a 2g iphone and get it with tmobile can i watch videos online wit youtube or anyother video website?
1. January 2009 at 10:53 am
Just to clear up Sina’s idea of using 2100 MHz HSPA for the downlink, and 850/1900 MHz EDGE for the uplink, sorry, that won’t work.
No 3GSM core network allows a mobile device to be connected to both GSM and UMTS networks at the same time. The chipset almost assuredly wouldn’t allow that either. It can’t happen.
6. January 2009 at 2:40 pm
I can confirm that Iphone 3g will work if unlocked on the T-Mobile network but will only be able to access the Edge data network. The T-Mobile 3g data network is not compatible with the Iphone unfortunately.
10. January 2009 at 8:43 pm
Can some one clarify this to me as I am new to the iphone subject.
If I buy a jailbroken 3G iPhone, can I use it in the T-mobile network as well as in Africa (midle East) where they operate on 1800 Mhz.
I want to make sure that I can surf the net in US and Midle East.
Thanks
11. January 2009 at 10:28 am
Max,
You can use the T-Mobile edge network here in the US, but not the T-Mobile 3G network. As far as the middle east, no idea.
10. February 2009 at 8:36 pm
how can i get iphone G3 in T.mobile service.
10. February 2009 at 9:20 pm
ATT’s contract with apple expired 2-3 months ago. No other service provider jumped on-board, and so ATT renewed. Shame on you T-Mobile!
24. February 2009 at 4:13 pm
Hi, can anyone tell me:
1) Would a phone with specs of HSPDA 2100 work on US Tmobile 3G network?
2) What’s the diference having both HSPDA 2100/1700 vs. just HSPDA 2100, since Tmobile is 1700/2100?
3) What’s UMTS 1700/2100 vs HSPDA 2100/1700? And would a phone w/ UMTS specs work on HSPDA network?
Thank you so much.
28. February 2009 at 11:59 am
I just got my first Sciphone I68+. The only reason I wanted such phone is to be able to have it display the caller ID in large font as I wear a reading glasses.
Unfortunately, the font for caller id is too smal.
Do any one know if there is a way to change the font to a larger one or is there is an application out there that I can install it to make the font lareger ?
Thanks in advance.
23. March 2009 at 3:15 am
Actually neither Apple or AT&T ever said there is a contract between them that states AT&T being exclusive. But we are pretty sure there is one. But also, neither has said that if they did have a contract what the terms are. It is just rumored that they had a 5 year contract, but technically no one ones. Maybe Apple could go with T-mobile but maybe they can’t. We just don’t know. It’s all hush hush about it.
15. April 2009 at 10:39 am
Thank you, everyone for the most useful info I have found after searching the web for answers for the past two days! I agree with ClayE, and this thread was the final blow, google phone here I come! I really wanted the iphone, but I refuse to have mediocre service to get it, and that is all AT&T offers, at extortionist prices. It is not worth cracking if all the features aren’t functioning. Plus the google phone supports a free apps system that is a little more user fair. It may be a second rate phone, but I have so many better ways to sell my soul to the devil than to buy the iphone in its current state.
22. June 2009 at 11:48 pm
I’ve had a iphone 3g for about 4 months now and I love it only down is the edge network I’m forced to use but to tell u the truth it’s not that bad tmobile has a fairly decent edge speed … Plus everyone I know with a 3g compatible tmobile use edge to surf the net anyway complaining thatthe 3g kills there battery the iPhone is the best phone in the world easily …. Maybe 3g for tmobile users one day but def not a reason to not get your hands on one …. I’m sellin mine as soon as dev team tells me I can unlock a 3gs …. Witch I’m sure will be a even better experiance ….
Skyy
Mac pro
Macbook pro
iPhone 3g
23. June 2009 at 7:24 am
Good news skyy, Ultrasn0w released this morning, which soft unlocks the 3G’s for tmobile
You can get all the details at ultrasn0w.com (the o in snow is actually a zero)
24. July 2009 at 12:50 am
so is there any reason at all to get an iPhone 3G over a 2G if i’m going to use on T-Mobile? what feature/benefits would there be?
24. July 2009 at 1:38 am
The only benefit would be GPS service, which would function. So, if you want your iPhone to have turn-by-turn directions, or GPS coordinance functionality… you would need an iPhone 3G.
Also, iPhone 3G supports MMS and Stereo Bluetooth. Technically, the original iPhone does as well… but Apple refuses to enable this functionality on the original iPhone.
The iPhone 3GS has a faster processor, OpenGL 2.0 ES Graphics, and a built-in compass.
1. August 2009 at 8:41 pm
I was told by the TMobile salesperson as well as TMo customer care that my unlocked iPhone will in fact work on their 3G network. So far, it hasn’t, but I’ve only had it about half a day. I was told it needed time to “communicate with the network”. Are they just yankin my chain?
1. August 2009 at 8:45 pm
iPhone 3G will work on their network just fine. But, it won’t work at 3G speeds. Read the above for a technical explanation.
You will also need to edit settings on the iPhone, in order to establish a data connection with T-Mobile’s servers. Google is your friend there.
2. August 2009 at 3:03 pm
It wont work due to different frequencies.
3. August 2009 at 8:59 am
Laura,
I think there is some confusion about the definition of “work” — to clarify:
The 3G iPhone cannot connect to the 3G T-Mobile network, but it will fall back to using the EDGE T-Mobile data network — so the phone “works”, but at EDGE speeds.
If you want 3G data speeds on T-Mobile, you’ll need to pick up one of the T-mobile data phones like the G1 or myTouch 3G.
3. August 2009 at 3:55 pm
very slightly off topic, but has anyone managed to tether a 3G iphone on T-mobile? i understand you’d probably only be getting Edge speeds on the laptop, but that’s better than nothing when there’s no other usable signal around…
19. August 2009 at 1:34 pm
@JC
Yes there is a way to do that. I have done it and it works surprisingly well over edge. You need to first Jailbreak your phone and then download an app through CYDIA called PDANET. It basically turns your phone into a wifi router. Just bare in mind that battery power immediately becomes a concern because it does suck down the power pretty quick with both edge and your wireless antenna going. There are instructions on how to create whats known as an adhoc network on your computer to make this all work. On the Mac it’s ridiculously easy, on the PC there are a few extra steps but definitly worth it.
27. August 2009 at 2:24 pm
Hi I am new here and have spent the past several days researching iPhones, T-Mobile, AT&T and pretty much you name it lol. I am thinking about buying an iPhone (the best I can get – which I believe right now is the 3GS) but I currently have a MotoRAZR V3 phone with a T-Mobile SIM card and service. The plan I have right now includes only minutes and text messaging. I wanted to know a few things: first, does the information about pertaining to the iPhone 3G also apply to the 3GS (such as GPS, Internet, etc.)? I pretty much want to know if it is currently possible to crack/ hack/ jailbreak & unlock an iPhone 3GS – AND HOW TO DO THIS – and if so once done, do I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO PAY T-Mobile for internet service for my iPhone, or is there another way to get FREE internet access on the iPhone 3GS (i.e. wi-fi, etc.). Will the GPS still work on my iPhone 3GS once all this is done? And what about activation? Once I buy the iPhone from, say Apple (or wherever) will I have to activate it somehow, and if so how do I do this? Do I need an AT&T SIM card to do it & what kind? And can I just use my old T-Mobile SIM card? Or can I proceed straight to jailbreaking and unlocking with redsn0w, Ultrasn0w, purplera1n and all that jazz? Lastly, can someone PLEASE write in plain simple steps the order in which to activate, jailbreak and unlock the iPhone 3GS. Do I activate first (do I even NEED to activate?), then jailbreak (and do I use redsno0w, Ultrasn0w or purplera1n to do this?) and finally unlock. I know it is a lot of questions, but it would be ENORMOUSLY appreciated, you have no idea, there is just so much info out there, so can someone please help me out, it would take like only a few mins of your time and it would save me like DAYS of research, calling, etc. Thanks a BILLION!!
-Kam
2. September 2009 at 10:42 am
Kam,
Yes you can jailbreak (so you can install custom apps) and unlock (so you can run on T-mobile) the 3GS, our iPhone 3.0 T-Mobile guide will actually walk you through it.
To address your question about data on the phone, yes you can get internet on the phone using WiFi instead of EDGE/3G from T-Mobile (since they are incompatible). GPS I believe will continue to work regardless as it uses a separate antenna for the GPS signal.
I think most everything on the phone will work, but all the data-driven services (email, browsing, iTunes download, IM’ing) will only work when you are in a WiFi area. If that’s OK with you, you should be fine.
2. September 2009 at 11:44 am
EDGE works on T-Mobile but 3G won’t as 3G runs at 1700 MHz on T-Mobile and 1900 MHz on AT&T. EDGE runs on the same MHz on both.
2. September 2009 at 2:05 pm
Absolutely right Brian — Anyone needing EDGE will get that working just fine on either network on the iPhone.
27. November 2009 at 3:11 pm
If anybody wants an unlocked iphone go to the apple store and here in australia they don’t lock iphones unless if they are prepaid and here in australia the phone owner has every right to have there cell phone unlocked or usb 3g umts modem unlocked and they cant stop the custumer to do it but sometimes they mite have to pay a unlocking charge it mite be somthing simler in the usa but check with the telephone athority to find out your rights on unlocking cell phones and here in australia most cell phones are not locked and if anybody wants unlocked iphones check out the online stores here in australia but australia uses 850 mhz 900 mhz 2100 mhz for 3g umts
19. December 2009 at 5:20 pm
Tmobile does support the 3G on Iphones, I have a family member who works for them who told me that the #G “Icon” will not show on the Iphone but you are still getting 3G speed. I also called TMobile and confirmed this with two different TMobile reps. If you want call them yourself instead of reading peoples b.s on the web. Have a niphone day
19. December 2009 at 7:56 pm
Mike, your family member needs a change of employment then. The G icon means GPRS, the slowest form of data on T-Mobile’s network, even slower than EDGE.
Grow up with your claims of BS, a person on the web just showed you how your family member shouldn’t be working at T-Mobile (without some major re-training anyways).
19. December 2009 at 7:59 pm
I should clarify that GPRS is the slowest form of packet data on T-Mobile, operating at around 28,800 bps. There is a slower form of data, CSD, that is used for faxing and other communications, which operates at 9600 bps. Note that is bits per second, not kilobits.
20. December 2009 at 9:39 am
hi i recently unlocked an AT & T and started using the phone in the network of my choice. I am able to use the phone but not use the web services as it says connection failed or web services not available, please help
20. December 2009 at 7:08 pm
You need to configure the data profile. Open the Cydia application (presuming you have it installed) and click the Search tab. Enter your carrier’s name and see if there is a configuration add-on already built for it.
25. December 2009 at 8:23 am
Hi
I have a 3g that is jailbroken and unlocked. If I even turn 3g on in my settings I get a “no service” at all. Some have told me 3g works and some tell me it doesn’t. I personally can tell you mine doesn’t, but you have given me the best reason as to why, and I thank you for that. Merry Xmas!!
25. December 2009 at 8:48 am
That’s because T-mobile’s 3G runs on 1700/2100 MHz while AT&T runs on 1900/2100 Mhz.
You have to have a phone that works on BOTH frequencies as some is used for something like the actual data transfer and the other is for signaling. I forget which is why.
The iPhone does work on 2100MHz but you still need it to work on 1700 to work with T-mobile. It physically is not possible to work on T-mobile. You are in idoit if you say it does work.
25. December 2009 at 8:53 am
Wow, i was originally the 4th post on here haha.
For the electrical engineers out there, isn’t it possible to reprogram the baseband chip and change the frequency to 1700 MHz?
25. December 2009 at 8:57 am
No it is not possible. The radio chip physically has to have it or not, and it doesn’t.
Currently there isn’t a chip out there that supports 1700/1900/2100 MHz and takes multiple chips to make a device that can, which costs more money. However, I think it was Qualcomm who said recently they are developing a chip that does them all within one chip. I may be wrong on it being Quallcomm but you can Google it.
Think of it like you car radio or even a TV. Can your car radio tune to 200 FM? No, it’s not possible no matter what software hack you do to it.
26. December 2009 at 2:00 am
SO, currently there is no way to route, or tunnel 1900mhz to 1700mhz? or vise versa? i dunno….
26. December 2009 at 2:01 am
Only the manufacturer could make such a modification. Some older phones had additional bands routed through the chipset and antenna, making a firmware hack possible. Not so anymore… and AT&T certainly does not want Apple selling an iPhone 3G that can be used on T-Mobile 3G.
26. December 2009 at 4:52 am
@Christopher Price
What are you talking about? That was never the case or ever possible. And each iPhone 2H were all made the same, same with the 3G and 3GS. There were not hardware changes on the 3 models besides the change in the actual model. What I mean is every iPlhome 3G was built the same, and same with the others.
They always physically needed a new chip that supports 1700/2100 MHz. There was never nor ever could be a hack nor a firmware change to make it work.
26. December 2009 at 4:53 am
Sorry, when I said iPhone 2H I meant 2G. Typo.
26. December 2009 at 5:39 am
he said “older phones” not Iphones…. and just to get your little panties in another uproar, anything (and I mean anything) is possible…. take a look at the US government.. hehe
26. December 2009 at 5:48 am
Older phones also do not work unless they have a chip that already supports it. You can’t modify any chip to support 1700 MHz unless it physically supports it. It’s not a software / firmware issue. It phyically has to support it. The only phones that support both 1700 and 1900 MHz have 2 seperate chips and then normally one is disabled. Which is why a hack is possible as you just enable the other chip. Just like some CPUs have 4 cores but are disabled to only allow 2. You can mod it to enable all 4.
So it’s not possible unless t physically supports it no matter what phone it is.
26. December 2009 at 1:25 pm
As people have noted, I was referring to older manufacturers (Motorola, Samsung, etc) and the pre-quadband GSM era. That is why many people think that there is an “unlock” for 1700/2100 MHz UMTS… because on ancient phones you could pull off tricks like that due to phones being neutered.
The industry responded and locked down the hardware so it couldn’t be hacked by software. Infineon makes quad-band UMTS radios that Apple could ship tomorrow if they wanted to. Apple prefers their AT&T exclusivity in the United States, it makes for less competition.
28. December 2009 at 3:29 pm
Help! I bought a China phone off Ebay that is just like the iphone but has the slide out keyboard. It is a E2000, but I do not know the manufacturer.
I have figured out several things on the phone, but I am looking for somewhere to find out everything on the phone and codes to set up everything to use in the USA for T-mobile. Can anyone help me?
27. January 2010 at 3:47 pm
Just curious, as the BlackBerry Tour uses a single-band 2100MHz chip for T-Mobile 3G service in the US how it gets around the 1700MHz uplink necessity? Does the device upload in EDGE and download in HSPA? Thanks.
27. January 2010 at 3:57 pm
1 of the chips supports 2100 only, but there are 3 chips in the phone supporting the following bands:
800, 850, 900, 1800, 1900, and 2100
27. January 2010 at 10:01 pm
Here in Australia we don’t use 1900 mhz up link we use 850 mhz 900 mhz 2100 mhz and europe is the same except 850 mhz and i checked this with the cell phone company’s and the usa is the only country that is 1900, 850
27. January 2010 at 10:32 pm
I was told if you jail brake locked iphones when you update the sofware online it will lock back to the cell phone provider that the iphone was locked to it is easyer to phone up the provider to get the code and pay them on a visa or by an account with the call chargers or buy an iphone from day one from the apple store to get an unlocked iphone and here in australia iphones sold in the apple store or the online store is not locked and all of this i was told at the apple store you mite pay more for an unlocked iphone