Continuing from Part 1 of Video Game Violence, AO, Manhunt and More…
As I mentioned this whole topic was initiated by an email from Noah Jacobs-Andresen that discussed a core point to the issue that I hadn’t considered before and one that I think made it much easier for me to think about this subject, and that is:
When the violence itself is the central purpose of the video game, you have a problem.
I am paraphrasing Noah, but that is how I understood the gist of his point, and I had to agree.
Solider of Fortune 2, Gears of War, Dead Rising, Unreal Tournament 3, God of War 1/2, Turok, and on and on… these are all violent video games, but the purpose of these games wasn’t simply the gore itself.
Each of these games had a purpose. It’s true that most (and almost all FPSs in general) have the purpose of killing the most dudes to continue or get farther, rewarding the player with killing, but that is not the same as rewarding the player for violence or gore.
Here’s the difference:
- Killing: Get past these guards by killing them. You can do that by shooting them in the stomach (low gore), in the face (more gore), dropping a dumpster on them (low gore), using telekinesis on them to throw them into the distance (no gore), freezing them then shattering them (no gore) or shooting poisonous darts into them (no gore).
- Gore: Get past these guards by killing them. Earn extra bonus points for tearing their limbs off, even more points for disemboweling them and strangling them with their entrails, more points for using the skull of one as a silencer to shoot the 2nd one and even more points by tearing their skin off.
If you want a more concrete example, think of Manhunt 1 compared to Counter Strike. In both games you are essentially clearing levels of bad guys, but in Manhunt you have to do it by some intense murder sequence, the more intense the better. In counter strike you are shooting people in the legs, arms, chest, head, maybe a grenade or two and you move on.
In one you are rewarded for the gore and in one you are rewarded for the killing.
I think Manhunt, Carmageddon and a handful of other games are actually only about the gore. Most games have the focus of killing characters to continue, and will give you optional methods of doing so (Gears of War, Gun/Grenade/Chainsaw/Curbstomp, etc.) but don’t treat any other method different from the next. So if you curb-stomp a guy, he’s dead… if you shoot him, he’s dead. There isn’t a “Curb-Stomp bonus” that helps your team finish the level faster for example.
With that differentiation out of the way, now the problem that I and you and everyone else is facing is:
- Do we need to moderate these types of games?
Before I saw Noah’s email, I think I would have answered Probably Not. This is a tough subject and I can’t pretend to know the right answer. I do know that when I see a game like Manhunt (blatantly single-minded game who’s purpose is gore) I honestly cannot see the benefit to humanity to have this game played.
Some might think “Well it has an awesome story line”… well if it does, then pulling someone’s face off with a meat hook probably shouldn’t make the story any less awesome. Some will say “I should be able to play any game I want, I’m 18+!” and this reason is getting to become a slippery slope which is what we are seeing with this game… let me clarify…
10 years ago when we had Carmageddon, the graphics were so crappy and silly gore wasn’t really an issue.
Sure people argued that the game was made in bad taste, but it didn’t make sense to ban something so silly looking. Fast-forward to current day, with 300 million transistor graphics cards, DX 10 and all the other graphical buzz words… and it’s not so obvious anymore.
The screenshots in this post are on purpose, to get an idea of the progression of graphics, where we are going, and examples of just how realistic these games are getting.
What happens in 3-5 years when games are finally photorealistic, physics has been conquered and life-like animations are all the norm… what does it mean to hit someone with your car that has a giant row of swords on the front and they stick to it? What does it mean to smash someones head in with a bat, and they no longer immediately die and fall over, but stagger around bleeding and screaming begging for you to stop?
At some point games, along with the controls we use to interact with them, are going to become so real that I think the most violent of the games will become murder simulators to a degree.
This is not a stance I’ve had for a long time, but it’s impossible to look at the quality of games from 10 years ago, look at where we are now, and imagine how things are going to look/feel/play in another 10 years. Grand Theft Auto 8 is not going to be pixelated/boxy people running around getting hit by cars… it’s going to be you walking through New York City running down perfectly simulated people… if that’s not a murder simulator… what is? Murdering people?
As much of a fan of gore as I am (campy horror flicks, etc.) it’s born out of my love for the extreme while knowing no one is really getting hurt. The difference I’m describing here is the difference between watching Dead Alive knowing that it’s all fake and loving watching people get disembowelled while you wonder how they did that, and watching Faces of Death wondering if what you are watching is real, and feeling like you are going to vomit because of it.
To summarize… I’m not a fan of censorship and it’s a slippery slope once you say something ambiguous like “decency” or “common sense”, but I think that is what this boils down to. I look at extreme games like Manhunt as adding no value to my life… possibly a few moments of entertainment watching the murder scenes but do I need that? No… I think I’d rather play a game that I genuinely found fun and entertaining. That’s not to say that other game I pick might not be bloody as hell (e.g. Unreal Tournament 3), but it’s a different presentation and interaction with the violence than jamming pliers into someone’s vertebrae and tearing out part of their spine.
I really want to hear people’s thoughts on this though. I know there are folks on both sides of the fence on this issue with excellent reasons for both. Please take the time to leave a comment as I think everyone would have some good input.






















October 20th, 2007 at 11:50 am
I think killing in games is fine, but acctually taking pleasure in inflicting pain in torturous ways is fucked up.
April 8th, 2008 at 10:09 am
this debate has been going on ever since back in the days when doom first came out. (mortal kombat was one of the games that made the government step in and make a ratings board to keep this sort of thing in check) and i agree that the amount of gore in games like manhunt 2 is a bit much but on the other side of the coin here you got guys like ol jack Thompson who every time he hears about a school shooting or some other real violence and hears that the people involved played a violent game at some point in life he goes ape$^%$ and demands that all violent games be baned and censored. and so i take this argument and look at it this way violence in a game is ok to a point but when the violence IS the game then theres a issue to be had. i just wish ol jack would realize this and go after only the big time gore machines rather then every video game thug.
June 15th, 2008 at 9:11 am
I really don’t like gore. I think the gore in games like Gears and movies like Friday the 13th is just silly. However, Manhunt (both 1 + 2) are good, dark, horrific, but very well written stories.
June 16th, 2008 at 7:36 am
evan interesting point, I had heard that there was almost no story to Manhunt 1/2 but the gore is what saved it… wasn’t the story for #1 just a maniac that puts you in a crazy life-or-death game?
July 4th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Manhunt(1+2) don’t have a storyline. Even clive b’s Jericho had a moderate storyline which made the gore a little ……acceptable(in a b grade hack & slash movie kind’a way)
July 4th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Ratul,
That is true… I am playing Manhunt 2 now and I mean… it technically has a story, but it’s just there to hold up the insane violence… so far from what I can tell you are in an asylum that breeds people for violent military operations or something… or maybe it’s the whole death-sport thing again from #1? Not sure.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
For a piece written in late 2007 to address an issue in such a rounded way, that caught my attention while I was googling and surfing for `Firefox being useless’ means things are getting random these days.
However I won’t leave without stating that I believe 100% that the genre of fps that promotes gore and dragged out torture is way way too popular to be healthy. Frankly I don’t care for gore fests. I do play BF2 occasionally but my main thing is simulations. It is so very clear that the decreasing avenues of public freedom for kids, less caring parents, the everyday stress of western world survival and the proliferation of fps gore fests and games of extreme violence are inextricably linked.
We are systemtically destined to self destruction as a race it would appear, and that is entirely my standpoint until such time as enough is enough for the majority and we do actually stand up and take notice of what is going on around us. Gore fest games promoting violence should be controlled, and I think the minimum age should be raised for them to at least 21 yrs. Classification is also strictly important of such games, and to that end it should be made absolutely clear on packaging and merchandise/advertising that just as a movie with explicit sexual content is controlled, the very same (if not more) should be applied to games, films and entertainment which graphically glorify in detail extreme horrific killing.
Complacency is the only worse killer. And this makes me extremely sad to have witnessed on an almost daily basis the decline of morality and respect.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Jan,
We certainly appreciate you stopping by and leaving your thoughts on the topic.
I waffle on this topic with myself constantly… my gut tells me that it’s all connected… how can you have an 11-year-old murder people with a chainsaw in a game and be better off for it? I’m not sure.
But on the flip side, I am drawn to that stuff (along with a massive majority of men) as long as it’s clearly for fun/fake… it’s sort of like the difference between watching Dead Alive and laughing your ass off as a lawn mower cuts a guy in half versus watching Faces of Death where it could be real and you are watching something horrific and want to throw up.
The thing of it is… I have no idea why I’m so entertained by fake violence, and I don’t know if there would be any detriment to it not being there… for example, would I find aggressive outlets else where?
I really don’t know… hence all the waffling back and forth.
I’d really have to see some consistent science on this with child development to help me finally make up my mind… but yes it does seem that we sure do like destruction, on many different levels, as a species… I don’t know why.